Rethinking Employee Engagement in the Hybrid Workplace with Vimeo’s Crystal Boysen

Katelin Holloway: You're listening to All Hands, a podcast brought to you by Lattice, where people strategy is business strategy. I'm your host, Katelin Holloway.

Crystal Boysen: They want connection, but they want flexibility. They're like, I want to work when I want to work where I want to work. I want that flexibility, but I also really crave connection. Those two are often at odds and in direct conflict with one another. So how do we create this environment where you can give them boths? Because I think they're not alone in that. I'm definitely not Gen Z, and I definitely want both those things too, right?

Katelin Holloway: Disconnection and disengagement. They're on the rise in the workplace. A Gallup poll said 18% of employees were actively disengaged last year. You heard that? Not just disengaged, but actively disengaged. So what do we do about this? As people, leaders, one company says the solution is to completely rethink how we connect and engage with our employees.

Crystal Boysen: That's requiring just a different way of thinking and constantly challenging yourself at every turn and corner to be like, okay, is this working? Am I listening? Did I hear the feedback? It's not okay, shoot. So now we really have to come up with something different, and that's a beautiful and fun time. But yeah, it's also a really challenging time.

Katelin Holloway: This week on the podcast, I unpack the employee engagement secrets at Vimeo with chief people Officer Crystal Boyen. She's an expert in building intentional company cultures. Crystal drives employee engagement at Vimeo, the video streaming company with more than 260 million users. Prior to her work at Vimeo, she was the global head of people at Canva. Krystal shares her tips on how to engage employees in a hybrid or remote environment, how to motivate the incoming workforce and how we can level up our messaging. Spoiler alert, it includes videos. Crystal, welcome to all hands.

Crystal Boysen: Oh, thank you Katelin. I am so thrilled to be here and am very much looking forward to chatting today. So thanks again for having me.

Katelin Holloway: Employee engagement is something at the top of every people leader's agenda right now and for good reason. And now you have been in the people an HR game since I think like 2005, which means that you have seen a lot of workplace fads come and go. How is the current trend in employee engagement different than previous years? I

Crystal Boysen: Think the thing that stands out to me right now is really with overall engagement is that we're seeing a decline. We had an upward trajectory for over the last decade, which was incredible. And that's what you want to see as an HR leader. Our employees are getting more and more engaged year after year. This is wonderful news we should be celebrating. Well, that's really taken a turn in the last two years, and I think that for me is top of mind is why is that? What do we need to be doing differently to really reengage not only new employees as we bring them on, but also our existing employees? I am a big believer in this concept of needing to reengage employees as they're with you for a while. I think it was a Gallup study recently in the last two years since really the end of the pandemic end of 2020 to 2021 and then into 2022, we've seen a decrease by two to four percentage points overall in engagement, which again, from an HR perspective, we're going absolutely the wrong direction.

So that macro trend is really alarming to me. And then when I looked at some of the data that we're seeing from the reports I've read and research, it's very aligned to what we're seeing in our own data at Vimeo as well. It was right, the highest declining areas were around clarity of expectations and your role connection to the mission and the purpose of the company. So that connection was a big theme that I saw as well as opportunities to learn and grow is always one of our areas that is the highest driver of engagement, but yet we're also seeing the greatest decline year over year as well as the one that really stands out to me is just feeling cared about at work. That one has significantly declined year over year. So I think for me, those are all indications that employees like the headline there are feeling more disconnected from their company, from their job, from their team, from everything that matters at work and really drives engagement. And to me, this comes down to a communication and connection issue that we need to address.

Katelin Holloway: So what does engagement actually mean to you and your team at Vimeo? Yeah,

Crystal Boysen: Look, it sometimes seems like it's that elusive north star that we're always chasing, especially in hr. It's that golden metric of engagement. But for me, in the simplest form, I look at it as it's the connection that we create with our employees. It's have we captured not only their minds but also their hearts. And I know that sounds a little soft and HR ish, but I actually think that's the truth. It's that connection that employees that you create between an employee and it goes both ways. Their connection to the company and to what you stand for and your mission, but also our connection that we create with every one of them to make them feel like human beings again in the workplace. So it's like it is in the simplest form, it's capturing both their hearts and minds. So we have that connection that goes both ways.

So that's how I look at engagement and to think about it and talk about it. I also think it's really important to think about how employees feel at work. Again, not to go too soft, but we often it's about productivity and efficiency, which are incredibly important, don't get me wrong. But it's also really important that they find some joy in their work and they come and they feel fulfilled and they have a feeling of purpose and all those things. So I think it's really balancing some of the harder things that drive engagement, you know, want to come to work and do great work and be productive and all of that. But it's also the softer things too. And I think finding the beautiful balance of the two is really important. And we often as companies, I think in leaders over index on one or the other. And it's difficult sometimes to find that nice balance.

Katelin Holloway: I'm so glad to hear you use words like feelings. What you're talking about is really the core and the critical component of enabling our employees and enabling ourselves to really feel that sense of belongingness feel. That is a sentiment. It is a feeling that we live and breathe and bring to us with work every day. And as I'm out advising founders in my own portfolio company and friends that are building companies and chatting with other HR leaders out in the space, this is the thing that I think has been brushed aside and tossed out by most companies because we finally have convinced everyone that HR is a strategic function. And so in order to do that, we had to, and I think this was necessary, and I think it's an important part of our work, really demonstrate the focus on business outcomes. And when you're focused on business outcomes, you have to learn how to speak the language of leadership.

And leadership, especially in a tech company. You're sitting there and you're talking about OKRs, KPIs, you're talking about these drivers to your point of companies will either over or under index on the feeling part and you keep apologizing for it to be soft. But the reality is, is that's the human side. And if we don't acknowledge it and if we don't address it and we don't nurture it, give space for those feelings to live and breathe, the reality is they're, they're going to live somewhere anyway. They're going to manifest themselves in the back channel in the dark corners of the virtual office that we've created because we are human. And a uniquely human quality is that we feel. And so by creating the safe spaces, the spaces where people have psychological safety to be able to put that and then for you to say, I see you, I hear you, and this is how we are going to address that, whether it's you're going to continue to do something, you're going to stop doing something, you're going to start doing something. All of those things matter in that employee experience, which is the biggest thing that clicks in engagement. And so I didn't mean to soapbox there, I just really hate it when companies forget about feelings.

Crystal Boysen: Well, I love it and thank you. Cause I also need to just, I thought I liked what you said about stop apologizing because I think it is around, it's both, right? You can do both because you better believe we are a high performing HR organization who's driving business results and accelerating the business. You better believe that. But we're also, we know how to do the other part too and take really good care of our people. And I think that's that beautiful balance that we're trying to achieve and want to create.

Katelin Holloway: I love it. Let's talk about listening. What role do you think listening plays in your employee engagement strategy?

Crystal Boysen: Look, it's so important. It underpins everything that we do from a people team perspective. At the crux of it, it's listening to our customers, which are, in our case, our employees. So we're very much, I like to think of us as a product organization. HR has traditionally been the check the box organization that just does the thing that we always do because we're supposed to versus let's stop and really talk to and hear our customers again, a K r employees about what they need and want, what's actually going to provide value and impact for them in their day-to-day work. We also try to actively listen through many different mechanisms. Like we have an Ask Vimeo kind of open forum via Slack where you can ask us anything and we answer. We have feedback forums and facilitate that through one-on-ones with managers and their team leads.

We also do retros and feedback on all of our major program launches as an HR organization. So we just always us, it's a consistent listening feedback loop that's always open. And then I can tell you we know when we haven't listened because we don't get it right. And then the most important thing, and of course employees can have survey fatigue and feedback fatigue. So the best way to offset that obviously is to actually do something and action what you were hearing. And I think that's the most important part of all of this. You can listen all you want, but unless you actually take the information and what you're learning and then apply it and do something with it and action. And I think that's the most critical part in my mind.

Katelin Holloway: I appreciate that very much. I think talking to both our wins when we get it right and our losses is also really important. I want to shift gears a little bit to managers now. So it sounds like you have a great culture of listening and treating HR like a product and understanding that your customer are your employees. Let's talk a little bit about the roles that people play. I've heard your C e o, Angela sued say something to the effect of the traditional managerial model is failing us. It's time to adapt how we as leaders show up and connect with our employees. I want to get a little deeper into that. Given that this is something your c e O is saying out loud, not just internally, but externally, what are some of those new ways that you are operationalizing connecting with your people? What does that look like?

Crystal Boysen: Yeah, I love Anjali out there talking about this because we are so aligned and it's so true. Look, it's two things for us. It's what we communicate. We try to be really intentional. We really try to simplify our messaging. We're a highly transparent company and Anjali the tone at the top and how she expects all of us to communicate. And then one of our principles that we live day in and day out is be real. And I think that shows up in how we communicate as well and what we communicate. So we have the what, but we also more importantly focus on how we communicate. Because I think to me that is what is so important right now. And when we talk about how we connect with employees, part of that is how we communicate to them, how do we treat them? Do we treat them human beings who are fully capable of making their own decisions and sharing trust and vulnerability with them?

And the answer is yes. That's how we want to treat our employees and we want to show up for them. And for us, that's how we build connection is through some of that how we communicate to them. We again, are very transparent and we like to believe that we try to be as vulnerable as possible and open and honest and authentic so then they feel comfortable and have the safe space to do that in return. So we're creating this culture of transparency and authenticity and creating connections and belonging. So one of the things that folks just love about Vimeo is that we have every single new hire do a newbie video. They do it as they join. So within the first week, and we really give no constraints. We're just like Pop on a Vimeo, we want you to make a minute or two video just to help us understand and learn about you as a human being.

We don't want your resume history and all that. But besides that, anything and everything about yourself, hobbies, family, partner, whatever and what we get back, it's just so amazing and it builds connection with folks that you may not meet because we're like many companies fully. We're global, we're hybrid, we're distributed all over the world. So we don't get to see each other in off in person all that often. So that alone creates a sense of connection of, wow, I really get to know someone that I wouldn't get to meet in person based on this video. And from that generates relationships generates these connections. Clubs have formed around, Hey, I saw you are an avid tennis player, or you love dogs, or you drink a lot of wine in your newbie video and then let's like, I like that too. Let's be slack buddies and do that sometime over zoom or whatnot.

So that we found has really created this sense of connection and belonging right off the bat in week one, literally day one sometimes for newbies, which is really, really great. The other thing that's really important for connection for us is we want folks, what we see in the workplace right now in terms of engagement is flexibility is really important. Folks want to kind of work when it works for them to some degree. We all have really busy, probably hopefully fulfilling lives outside of work. And so we want to be able to find that balance isn't the right word, but fit between the two. And so really leveraging, again, video for asynchronous type communications. We have really what we like to believe are engaging state of the vimeos, which are our all hand meetings where we bring everyone together, but of course we record it and if folks can't watch it, they can do it in their own time. So it's like little things like that that are intentional about seeing people in a very human authentic way is really at the crux of it. Again, it's just as much of what we communicated as it is. And I think that honesty, transparency video allows for this human expression to come through more than in writing. And I think that really helps build connection when you're all around the globe and don't get to see each other in person.

Katelin Holloway: I have to be honest with you, crystal, I have talked with so many incredible people, leaders, I've had the privilege and pleasure of partnering with so many incredible founders. And one common denominator for me that I've discovered in companies that really have these high performing inclusive, diverse cultures that their employees love is that they actually use their own product and they let their product help shape and give structure and framework to how they're operationalizing their culture. And so to hear you say that you're using video in a really unique way within your workplace tells me that y'all are getting many things very right? Every company is super unique and what works for this company may not work at the next, which is why when we take our playbook as leaders from one company to the next, it's not a copy paste and it makes my heart so happy to hear that your employees are doing exactly what they should be doing with it without you saying, now employees, you should go out and find and make five authentic connections. Like, no, that's not how that works. Yeah,

Crystal Boysen: It doesn't work like that, does it? Yeah, no, we love it too. We get value not only as you mentioned on the cultural side and the people side, but also employees. Using our own product helps make our product infinitely better. You better believe we're given that feedback loop to the product team of we'd really like to be able to do this and what about this next? And being able to inform the roadmap as well is pretty cool if you ask me because we have lots of ideas and love being able to be the first people in to be using the product as well.

Katelin Holloway: Okay. We're going to shift gears a little bit to something that you mentioned earlier about the Gallup poll that you recently read. And there is a component to this one, I'm assuming we've read the same one that actually is talking about the engagement more explicitly or specifically about Gen Z. So Gen Z, the youngest generation in the workforce with Gen alpha nipping at their heels, every generation loves to pick on the youngest generation to come into the workforce because they're the ones who are shaking things up. They're the ones saying, y'all have been doing it like this. That's not working for us. And so I would love to hear your thoughts and perspective on Gen Z in the workplace and how they are feeling engaged at this point. Do you have any thoughts and feelings on Gen Z engagement?

Crystal Boysen: I have so many thoughts and so many feelings. Those feelings, they get you

Katelin Holloway: Feelings, there they are.

Crystal Boysen: And those feelings, they're coming up again. Look, again, in our data, it mirrors what we're hearing and reading and all the external research is out there in the reporting that Gen Z has one of the lowest engagement rates across any of our working generations. And they're also becoming quickly becoming one of the largest parts of our workforce. And they're climbing up the ladder or the jungle gym, whatever you have in your organization and becoming in roles of influence. So this is something that if it's not top of mind as a people leader, you're you're probably not thinking about the right things. Here's what I love. So one, I don't love that they're the most disengaged group. We need to solve that. And I think it's for a lot of the reasons that we talked about up top, what I know to be true about Gen Z is that they prioritize different things.

They care about different things. Different things matter to them and drive their engagement. So again, it goes back to that listening. Are we listening to them? Are we hearing about what they need and want? An interesting stat is the number one driver of their engagement. Similar to others though, isn't pay is as much as people think compensation's. The reason I stay at an employer, it's not for Gen Z in particular as well, but they want career growth opportunities. They want to be learning and developing. They want to be growing themselves. They want to feel cared for at work. They want to be acknowledged as a whole human being who has needs and wants that are fulfilled outside of work. They want to be shown appreciation for their mental health and their overall wellbeing. Again, it's that growth and development and they want to have connections and relationships at work.

And so I think that's a big of it. And then also they just grew up in a different world in terms of access to information systems, like how they process. And for them it's like bite size chunks of information when and where and how they need it kind of thing. Versus a big lengthy email or this big formal state of the union address for hours isn't how they're going to digest information. So I think it's about navigating, dissecting what they're telling us they need and want and then adjusting how we communicate with them, how we engage with them, what kind of programs we deliver to meet their needs. I don't have the silver bullet. If any leader does, I'd love to chat with them. But I think it's about slowly addressing and listening to what they need and want and making sure that you're adjusting your programs and customizing 'em to them as well as other folks.

I think when you listen to engagement or you read engagement data and listen to the feedback, it's important to also dissect it by those different demographics, whether it's workforce or gender or all those things. Because I think that's the unlock is being able to get really focused. And marketing has personas. We as HR organizations need to really tune into the personas of our employees, which Gen Z as a persona of their own in terms of what they need and want and what works for them. So I think ideally getting more and more customized and individualized for our employee base is a direction we need to head overall to help drive engagement. But especially in the Gen Z workforce,

Katelin Holloway: I could not agree more. As you're looking at this cohort as this persona, are you finding that your Gen Z population is more interested in hybrid and remote work or more interested in in-office and live experiences?

Crystal Boysen: So it's an interesting mix. I can only speak to the data that I've seen from our own stimulus specific data, but they want connection, but they want flexibility. They're like, I want to work when I want to work where I want to work. I want that flexibility, but I also really crave connection. Those two are often at odds and in direct conflict with one another. So how do we create this environment where you can give them both? Because I think they're not alone in that. I'm definitely not Gen Z, and I definitely want both those things too. So how do we do that? And I think that's what many of us haven't quite figured out the best way to do that, that's cost effective. So it's like we have to figure out a way to how do you build connection when you're not physically together and what does that connection look like and how is that different but yet still incredibly meaningful to create that fulfillment? And so I think that's again, one of the areas where, okay, Vimeo video, we use video Cause we do believe that is one of the best unlocks that we've found because it's the best way outside of literally you and I being together in a room because video also allows that flexibility. So it's like, okay, flexibility and connection. We got to find that middle ground. We believe that video's a good power tool for that, but we know there's more than that too. So that unlock is the million dollar question.

Katelin Holloway: I mean, truly if you're doing the Venn diagram of both of those things and trying to figure out what sits in the middle, again, when you're building your programming or you're trying to operationalize strategies to increase that engagement, it's a small, a slim, slim little bucket. It

Crystal Boysen: Feels very tiny. It feels like, yeah, you're shooting a dart at a tiny little target there, but it's so important. So I mean, I'm not going to give up, but yeah, it is a tough one. I'm going to keep practicing, keep shooting and see if I can hit that bullseye, but it's an important one to solve.

Katelin Holloway: So in a world where video is the cornerstone of kind of challenging traditional communication styles within the workplace to increase engagement, what are some other strategies or programs that you've put into place?

Crystal Boysen: Programs are such an incredible tool as long as they're created and developed with, again, the employee at the heart of it and the center of it. And we have done our job at being a very customer centered organization to deliver something. I think one of the most important programs that an HR organization can deliver is their onboarding program. To me, that is a cornerstone of the first impression and moment that an employee joins is like that's where you can start to capture their hearts and minds. That's where engagement starts day one. How you show up to them and engage them is critically important. So what we're trying to do is really revisit and look at our onboarding programs to say, are we doing everything we can to create connection, communicate clearly. We're really doubling down on the how and the feelings and the connection, which is a bit of a pivot from what we've traditionally done in onboarding in the past.

So I think that's a big unlock for organizations and coming in our workforce, we have a lot of Gen Zs coming in and it's like, okay, we know they use TikTok or bite size videos. So we're trying to make our onboarding program interactive. So we have an interactive video program where it's choose your own onboarding adventure. Do you want to start with learning about it? The people department, your department goals, our overall strategy? You want to hear from Crystal first or Anjali? I can tell you we look at the data. I've never once won that one that to choose between. So I think there's something really powerful there of setting the stage when an employee joins, but also then giving them the flexibility to kind of say, this is what I want to learn when I want to learn it and how I want to learn it.

Obviously then how programs show up in terms of driving engagement. One of the biggest drivers for us is l and d, learning and development. What kind of growth opportunities do I have? And we believe that managers are an incredible unlock for engagement as well. So we're doubling down on manager development in particular and building the most wildly successful managers that we can. I mean, that's not new news, but I think folks often don't focus enough time and energy on that population. And then of course for us it's about recognition, performance, it's like, but I would kind of say the standard HR programs, but we're trying to make them as unstandard, non boring, more impactful as humanly possible and getting to the heart of, in all those programs, what are we doing to intentionally create connection to simplify our communication around it to make it feel like it's really providing deep to every employee.

Because what we don't want, and again, I think we've all been guilty of HR just being sort of viewed as that. Like, oh, HR put another program out. I'm going to do it because they need me to check that box, but my behavior's not going to change of the result. It's not going to make work any better, me any more successful or effective at my job. And that's what we want to avoid. One thing I love about our ceo, she also talks about this out in the public, is like, nothing's sacred here. There's no such thing as status quo. And I really love that it challenges me and my team to go out and think really big and differently about all of our programs, which is fun and exciting.

Katelin Holloway: I mean, that's the beauty of the work that we get to do, especially at this particular moment in time. 15 years ago, it really was about the reinvention of HR rebranding from HR to people and culture to flash forward to where we are today, which is the dawn of a new era. And you Crystal and colleagues in the space that are also running and leading the people and culture teams really have no playbook to run from. You are not pulling out pages from the days of your, because the world is fundamentally different than what it was even four years ago. And then really bring that back around to be that bleeding edge of this is what a healthy multi-generational workforce that is. Remote, distributed, hybrid, whatever we're calling it today, can really be successful. So I think it's an incredible moment in time for our industry.

Crystal Boysen: It is. I mean it exciting, but it's daunting as well. Cause you're right, there is no, I'm just going to pull this playbook out and run this play. It's like, nope, that's your point. That doesn't exist. So it is, it's requiring just a different way of thinking and constantly challenging yourself at every turn and corner to be like, okay, is this working? Am I listening? Did I hear the feedback? It's not, okay, shoot, we can't do it again then. So now we really have to come up with something different. It's a beautiful and fun time. But yeah, it's also a really challenging time and we got to get it right because our employees are telling us right now that we're not, right, because engagement scores are going down across the board. This is where I want Vimeo to be really different. So I'm like, all right, challenge accepted, roll up the sleeves and we got to get to work. But it's not an easy road ahead.

Katelin Holloway: It genuinely sounds like Vimeo is out there on that cutting edge, making things different and sharing. I think that that's something that is also really important to point out about how you are choosing to work as an organization is not just doing this in a vacuum. Let's trade notes. Let's share, this is something we tried and failed. This is something we tried and we're seeing early successful metrics around it. Let's plus it up. Let's help one another and be better and really link arms because that is what we did to graduate our function and therefore graduate our businesses to this next chapter of success. And so one, I just want to commend you for putting it out there and for really doing your best in a very earnest and authentic way to say we can be better and we can do better. Okay. Are you ready for rapid fire?

Crystal Boysen: I guess I'm in the hot seat. I'm ready. Hot

Katelin Holloway: Seat. You can do it. I trust you. Okay. We've talked a lot about video, obviously for obvious reasons. Yes. What is your favorite movie TV show or Vimeo video? What do you have on repeat right now?

Crystal Boysen: Oh my goodness. It's a Vimeo video, and I'm not just saying that because it's absolutely hilarious. Have you seen that meme going around? A group of employees walk into their manager's office because they're like, it's performance reviews and they do a dance. Yes. So my team was together just a couple weeks ago in New York, and we totally recreated that. And it's the funny, I mean I'm biased, but it's the best video out on Vimeo at the moment. It's hilarious. Oh

Katelin Holloway: My God, I love that so much.

Crystal Boysen: It's pretty incredible. There were some really great dance moves that took place on that performance video.

Katelin Holloway: Oh my gosh. Okay, second question. I'm going to take you back in time a little bit. Knowing about your background, you worked in Australia and you've worked for international companies. If you could hop on a plane, train or automobile right now to take a trip, where would you go?

Crystal Boysen: Yeah, so I have two kids, one's six and one's four. And my four year old is learning about wild animals in school right now and obsessed with our daily conversations are hilarious. What's faster, a war hog or a cheetah? The questions that are phenomenal. Girl,

Katelin Holloway: Same questions in my house, same.

Crystal Boysen: I was like, I'm going to have to ask Google that one. But we would hop on a plane, I think, to go to South Africa and go on a safari with the kiddos because I think the joy that they would see in seeing the wild animals. Also, my husband and I did last time we went on safari was together on our honeymoon. So there's some sentimental value there, but this time we take the kiddos not quite as romantic, but I think they'd really enjoy the animals.

Katelin Holloway: What's not romantic about a warthog demonstrating in real life, they're actual speed and agility. Last question, and this is a question that I ask every guest, when was the last time you were deeply proud of something you have accomplished?

Crystal Boysen: Oh, I love that question. So we do, twice a year, we do a people and culture town hall where we invite the entire company, and it's literally just a little over an hour, an hour and a half of the people team sharing what we're working on, sharing initiatives. We just had that last one in this past April or our first one of this year in April. And I was just so incredibly proud of, it wasn't me talking most of the time. It was the team sharing the amazing work we've done in q1, the incredible roadmap we have for q2, q3, and beyond. And then we made it really uniquely Vimeo in the fact one of our kind of principles for the year is to try to keep Vimeo a little bit more weird. It's about bringing that joy back in the quirkiness. And so we are trying to lead by example, and we made it pretty weird.

I'm not going to lie. Not only was it wildly informative, and we had a lot of incredible work and just launched some huge initiatives to really simplify Vimeo and to make HR wildly simple and impactful. We had a video that we had made with Breaking News that zombies attacked our headquarters in New York. I mean, it was incredible. So I was wildly proud for a lot of reasons, but just it was that moment of just sitting there feeling like we're building something really, really special here, and we've got the best team on the planet doing the work, and I just really, they're good humans too. So we're incredibly proud of the team we've built here was kind of the last one just recently.

Katelin Holloway: I love those moments when you can really kind of zoom out and say, this is it. This is it. This is why I get up out of bed every day. This is what makes coming to work a valuable use of my time. And reflecting on that pride and joy that you're finding in building a phenomenal workplace. This is why we do what we do. So I love that. That is so sweet. And I really like the idea of keeping Vimeo weird.

Crystal Boysen: That's right. Yeah. Our goal is we don't want to ever feel too corporate, and we want to make sure that we're all, again, being a wildly successful company, but yet also having a lot of fun and finding some joy back in work and creating those connections. And so, yep, it was fun. It was a lot of fun, and it was really, really rewarding.

Katelin Holloway: Well, thank you so much for reflecting on that for us. We are proud of you too. And so Crystal, with that, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us on the show today. And please, please keep leading authentically. Thank you,

Crystal Boysen: Katelin.

Katelin Holloway: Thank you so very much for joining me on this week's episode of All Hands. I'm your host, Katelin Holloway. Follow all hands wherever you get your podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you like the show, tell a friend about us or give us a shout on social. This podcast is brought to you by Lattice. Learn more about how Lattice helps companies deliver great business results with smart people [email protected]. Find us on Twitter at Lattice hq. All Hands is produced by Lattice in partnership with pod people. Special thanks to our production team, Christine Swore, Annette Cardwell, Rachel King, Amy Machado, Hannah Petterson, Danielle Roth, David Swick, Carter Wogan, and Michael Aquino. All say, I'll see you next time on All Hands. Until then, my friends, please keep leading authentically.